Showing posts with label wetherspoons. Show all posts

Bog Off - Exhibit 30 Starbucks Special!

This is an extra special Starbucks themed BogOff sent in by  BogOff fan Arienette. The photos feature the Woolwich branch of Starbucks in SE London, but BSS is also pleased to report a Starbucks BogOff twitter special.

Recently a fellow tweeter @trufflepotamus visited her local Starbucks, in Norwich, @trufflepotamus has some mobility issues but is not overtly visibly disabled. Whilst she was there she asked to use the disabled toilet as walking upstairs is difficult, tiring and painful. She was refused access to the disabled toilet by a staff member who informed her that the disabled toilet was only to be used by customers in wheelchairs.

Starbucks are one of the biggest companies to have adopted the use of social media. So, as soon as I heard about @trufflepotamus's experience I tweeted @Starbucks to inform them. To their credit a response was swift, with an immediate apology and assurances to investigate. Before long the managing director of Starbucks UK, Darcy Wilson-Rymer had tweeted his apology and asked for contact details so Starbucks could investigate. That was followed up by an email from Starbucks customer services team also apologising and promising to put right the problem. Starbucks contacted @trufflepotamus directly to ascertain the details and have reassured her that the official Starbucks policy is "just say yes" to any customer who requests to use the disabled toilet. They have also assured @trufflepotamus that they will provide retraining to the staff at the Norwich branch so they are all clear about this policy and have sent her a Starbucks card so she can return and enjoy the facilities on them.

Starbucks have led the way here and set an example to other companies about how social media can allow them to engage with their customers and help the company address issues promptly. It is fantastic to see that Starbucks immediately apologised and promised to do better, a stark contrast to experiences disabled people such as myself have had when dealing with other large companies such as Wetherspoons. 

Whilst I'd like to congratulate Starbucks and give them full marks for their behaviour over this incident I'd also like to take the opportunity to let them know there are issues with disability access and awareness in their other branches, such as this BogOff taken by BogOff fan Arienette  at the Woolwich branch of Starbucks in South East London. Will Starbucks UK lead the way and receive the first company wide Bog of Beauty award for their disabled toilets? I do hope so...



View of disabled toilet with grab rails to right and left. Emergency alarm cord is tied up away from the floor around one grab rail. The bins are obstructing the transfer area.


"There were some very good and very bad points about this toilet which is in the Woolwich branch of Starbucks in south east London.

The toilet is down a fairly narrow hallway. If you had anything other than a standard sized wheelchair and standard sized arms, you'd be in a tight spot. The door is also difficult to manouver with a pushchair and weakling arms, so I'm assuming it would be very difficult with a wheelchair.

The room is well lit but not blinding. It was clean, there was no debris on the floor and it didn't smell of anything, although it didn't smell pleasant, either. Actually thats just how I like my bogs, the overwhelming smell of fresheners or bleach can make me faint.

There's a baby-change (isn't there always? Well, no, actually, the disabled toilet in the Starbucks on Southamptom Row had nothing and I had to change the baby on the toilet lid. It was awesome. Not.) but it doesn't stick out too far when folded up, which is good, because the room itself is obviously built to minimum size standards. Again, if you had anything other than a standard size wheelchair you'd be in trouble.
Close up view of alarm cord tied firmly to grab rail and impossible to reach from the floor

Emergency Cord tied up out of the way, as always (I untied it, although have little hope that it will remain that way),  and the bins were in the way of the transfer area.
View of mirror at standard height above sink with adjacent grab rail

However, there were two mirrors. One at 'normal' height above the sink, and one lower down, perfectly positioned for wheelchair height.  However, again, in a larger wheelchair you may have to bend out to apply your lipgloss, because the mirror is tucked away in the corner.
View of wheelchair height mirror next to hand dryer at angle showing it would be difficult to see into from a wheelchair

All in all, a mixed bag. Better than most, but still falling short of the ideal. And really, why should a realistically usable disabled toilet be 'the ideal'?"


Thanks to Starbucks UK, @trufflepotamus and Arienette for this extra special BogOff - the disabled and parent/child users of your accessible facilities look forward to a positive response once more!  

More Wetherspoons nonsense

Aaargh. Now I'm angry. I've just spoken to someone from the police licensing department, who in fairness left a message for me last week. I didn't get it, but that's talktalk for you.

The police have spoken to the manager who gives a different version of events to me. He is insisting that I was asked to leave to comply with licensing laws and that by the time he forced us to leave the pub had to be cleared to comply with the law.

I attempted to explain to the police officer that the issue was with Disability Discrimination laws and that they provide for reasonable adjustments to be made, and given that it is not unreasonable to allow someone to sit safely whilst a crowd clears that the DDA should apply. The policeman insisted he knew nothing about that and when I asked him if there was a police department within this region who deal with disability crimes he said he didn't know. He insists it is not a police matter.

The policeman seemed to think I would want the manager sacked. I don't, I just don't want him to think it is in any way acceptable to behave in such a manner. The reason I complained was to try and prevent similar events. To my mind training in disability awareness (as well as how to communicate without screaming at people) would be the appropriate outcome.

I'm now more aware that wetherspoons are in the wrong because of the way they continue to respond to this. A 'without prejudice' letter is supposed to mean the writer is preventing their correspondence from being seen by a court, and to use it in this manner shows me that is where wetherspoons expect this to end up. The police also suggested, rather blithely I 'get a lawyer', which for anyone of average means in this situation would be unlikely, the costs being prohibitive. They also suggested that I get in touch with the area manager of wetherspoons directly.

Whilst I appreciate all the suggestions about contacting the media, I'm deeply reluctant to do that for all sorts of reasons, not least because that should not be the only recourse to a satisfactory resolution. I also don't want the attention.

I'm not sure what, if anything I will do next, but I do know this. What should have been a simple apology and assurance this kind of situation wouldn't happen again has ended up making me feel as hurt, angry and abused as I did when the incident first happened. I feel utterly powerless in my circumstances to go up against a company like wetherspoons with all their resources who are capable and prepared to manipulate the facts to suit them whilst knowing they are in the wrong. The whole point of Disability Discrimination law was to prevent such incidents happening and to empower those in situations it has happened to. Overwhelmingly I have felt that the police do not understand that is the main issue, and when pointed out to them they don't care and don't have the training to understand this is equal to any other discriminatory crime. After all, if that manager had screamed racial or sexual abuse the police would be on to it like a shot. Disability it seems really doesn't matter and I am left in no doubt about that.

Wetherspoons. The Reply

It speaks for itself. As I'm currently without scanner I have just typed the entire letter out for your viewing pleasure. And pleasure it is. Or maybe that should be fantasy.

29th February 2008
Without Prejudice

Dear Miss [Bendy Girl]

I am writing further to my recent correspondence, I apologise for the delayed reply.

I am sorry to hear of your disappointment when visiting the [wetherspoons pub in question. Place name incorrect]. I would like to assure you that we do treat all customer feedback seriously and appreciate you writing to us.

All of our pubs must be empty at closing time to ensure compliance with the license restrictions. As part of this the staff members will circulate the pub to ask all customers to leave at the end of the night. Whilst there is no strict company policy how this is done, we would certainly expect any requests of this nature to be made in a professional and courteous manner.

I understand that your friend was asked to leave, not due to the complaint he was making but due to the manner in which he remonstrated this to the manager. Following this the Manager was happy to allow another member of the party to remain with you as requested. I appreciate that you and your party feel this action was unjustified.

I am sorry that you and your group feel this issue was not dealt with satisfactorily at the time, your comments have been passed to the Area Manager who has performed a thorough investigation and the relevant action has been taken.

Once again, we have taken your comments seriously and I do hope you will not be deterred from visiting our pubs again.

Yours sincerely


Customer Services.

I spoke to the local licensing department on the phone (prior to receiving wetherspoon's response) who told me that they had all be horrified by the incident but did not think there was anything they could do. They informed me that the only way they can act to remove a license is if the holder is convicted of a criminal offence, and followed that up by suggesting both that I 'get a lawyer' and that I contact the police. This despite their assurances that they had already passed the matter over to the police department who deal with licenses and most importantly (according to them) the pub watch scheme. I've heard nothing from them since

I did contact the police licensing department, some two weeks ago. I'm still waiting for them to get back to me.

The irony of it all is of course had Wetherspoons simply written a standard letter of apology I would have accepted that (probably) not exactly having the desire to fight an unnecessary battle. However, all they've done with this letter is tell me they know they are in the wrong, and that they aren't willing to do anything about that. I'm not sure what the next step is.

Wetherspoons Update

Thank you to everyone who commented to offer support and/or advice after the Wetherspoon's incident.

I wrote a letter of formal complaint and following Jim's advice I sent a copy to the local licensing authority. I received prompt responses to both letters, the licensing authority telling me that my

"complaint is currently being investigated and [they] will write to you again with the outcome"

They also gave a (direct line) phone number and suggested if I have any queries I should contact them

Wetherspoons however simply said

"Thank you for your letter we received yesterday and for taking the time to write to us.
We are currently investigating the issues you raised and will be in touch in due course"

I'm very touched and grateful for the support that other bloggers have shown over this issue, Jackart posted on the subject, and Stonehead has not only posted on the subject but emailed Wetherspoons himself to let them know what he thinks. Gowen and Humaniform (who is I think Matt Wardman) have also posted on the subject.

I'll keep you all posted as and when I hear anything.

My local, friendly JD Wetherspoons

Being humiliated and screamed at was something I thought I'd left behind me with my family. Perhaps that's why it was both so unexpected and difficult to deal with last night.

I didn't really want to go, didn't really feel 100%, but it was Zelda's birthday so I felt obligated to, at least for one drink. As is always the way, once I was there I was really glad I went and met all sorts of friends of friends I'd not met before.

When I arrived I went and sat down before going to the bar and ordering myself a glass of orange juice and a bowl of chips for us all to pick at. Both Ziggy and his gf immediately offered to go to the bar for me, as they always do, being a protective and considerate bunch, but at the time I could do it myself so that's what I did. Independence being important an' all that.

Meeting sis's ex had made it somewhat of an emotionally trying night, and physically so because I'd gone outside to chat to him whilst he smoked, and sat on a metal chair in the cold. I had a proper coat and gloves on, but it was still too cold for me, and combined with another trip to the bar to buy him a sympathy drink and trips to the loo, I was all done being able to move around by the end of the night.

When it came to closing time, initially a female (slightly older) member of staff came over and asked us to stand up and move to the door where they were trying to get everyone out. Ziggy, by then very drunk and in full on protective mode didn't need to ask me to know that was going to be a problem and said to the lady something about my having mobility problems and that we needed to wait sitting down until the crowd had cleared. She was fine about that and carried on with her job.

The male manager was having none of it however. He came over and immediately started shouting. Whilst Ziggy (somewhat slurrily) attempted to explain that I had mobility issues and we just wanted to wait sitting down whilst the crush at the door cleared, the manager found that unacceptable and said to me directly that I did not have mobility problems because he'd served me a bowl of chips at the bar earlier and I had been standing. I can only assume he chose to ignore the orange juice I ordered during his rant as a sober person didn't fit with his theory of lying about disability.

Unsurprisingly it all got a bit heated at that point, the manager was determined to communicate only by screaming or shouting and was not going to back down. Ziggy was incensed, I was shocked, angry and deeply humiliated, and of course whereas initially it had been just a couple of us quietly sitting down asking to wait, and repeatedly insisting we didn't want to keep our drinks that they could clear them, it very quickly escalated to everyone left in the pub staring and those from the wider group of friends who were left coming back to back us up.

The manager continued to shout at myself and Ziggy in front of the entire pub, as things progressed he must've realised he'd made a mistake accusing me of not having any mobility issues, but he was not going to back down and tried to say that I could sit and wait, but that Ziggy and all my other friends had to leave and that he or another member of staff would assist me. Unsurprisingly I found that unacceptable and told him so, but he didn't want to back down on that either and continued to shout. I suggested (loudly and somewhat angrily by this time) that under the terms of Disability Discrimination Act he might just find we were in the right, but he still didn't want to back down and continued to scream and shout.

What I hadn't wanted to say during all this was that after moving around too much earlier, being out in the cold, and then sitting for too long, I couldn't get up. That in itself can be a bit humiliating, but I'm lucky to have great friends who offer help appropriately and don't insist on doing things if I say I can or want to do them myself. It certainly wasn't something I was prepared to start explaining to the manager of a Wetherspoons who had already accused me of lying about my disability, refused all reasonable requests for a very minor adjustment and who now wanted me to be left on my own, in a highly vulnerable position and accept assistance from the very person who'd just screamed at me for the past 5 minutes. The answer he got was simply that that was entirely unacceptable and that did he really want to go there.

He did. The guy just would not back down. He tried insisting that they would provide assistance for a few more moments, screaming and shouting whilst Ziggy in an absolute (drunken) fury demanded the police be called. I said that was neither necessary or appropriate (although had the manager not backed down eventually we'd probably have been left with no choice) and that I didn't want the police, but was insistent about the DDA again and by that point I think the manager had realised he'd made a major error in judgement and in some way was going to have to back down.

He wouldn't let it go though and insisted Ziggy had to leave. Pointed to Zelda, appointing her as the one he deemed acceptable to stay and help me, and told Ziggy to go. Fortunately Ziggy did and didn't argue the point further, although as Zelda was just as drunk as Ziggy the only possible reason for insisting he leave and she stay could have been to do with Ziggy arguing with him.

Zelda and I sat and waited, whilst another girl I've known for years came over to say hello and give me a hand. She knew some of the bar staff and had obviously been telling them the manager had made a mistake whilst he was too busy screaming and shouting to listen to reason.

We waited for the crush at the door to clear, but before long the manager was back insisting the crowd had gone and we had to leave now. We were not the last people in the pub by any means, but by then I just wanted to go home anyway, and there wasn't so much of a crowd I was afraid of being knocked over or getting multiple dislocations as we tried to get through. The manager was so insistent we had to get out there was no way he would have allowed us to wait until it was actually safe, so with assistance from Zelda on one side and the other girl I knew on the other we made our way to the door. On our way there the female member of staff asked if we were ok, and I told her I would be making a formal complaint about the incident. She told me he was the manager as if to say there was nothing she or I could do about it. The area around the inside and outside of the doors was still dangerously crowded as we tried to get out, to where Ziggy and the others were waiting to help.

This morning I'm still horrified, as well as humiliated, angry and upset about the whole thing. Whilst I'm aware I have a mainly invisible disability, my size makes me noticeably vulnerable looking and I do walk with a very visible 'gimp' (it's not a limp before anyone objects to the term). I also understand that people try it on at the end of the night in pubs, but that doesn't make the manager's behaviour in any way acceptable. Had he just asked a question about what the problem was rather than immediately starting screaming and shouting at us the whole event could have been avoided.

2008. Disability Discrimination Act 1995. We've got a very long way to go.
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